Stephen Adler is a former safety researcher at OpenAI. He joins the podcast to discuss how to govern increasingly capable AI systems. The conversation covers competitive races between AI companies, limits of current testing and alignment, mental health harms from chatbots, economic shifts from AI labor, and what international rules and audits might be needed before training superintelligent models. LINKS: - Steven Adler's Substack: CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:00) Race Dynamics And Safety (18:03) Chatbots And Mental Health (30:42) Models Outsmart Safety Tests (41:01) AI Swarms And Work (54:21) Human Bottlenecks And Oversight (01:06:23) Animals And Superintelligence (01:19:24) Safety Capabilities And Governance PRODUCED BY: SOCIAL LINKS: Website: Twitter (FLI): Twitter (Gus): LinkedIn: YouTube: Apple: Spotify: